Was 'Superman Returns' really so bad... or is it just oh-so-much-fun perpetuating a myth?
Personally, I don't think the Superman character has EVER been done just right in film or television... but - comparing them all on equal footing, without nostalgic memories that just get in the way of objectivity - I certainly don't think the recent outing was any worse than what came before.
Gary
· 1 year ago
well,after Clark is bitten by that Radioactive spider...
L.A
· 1 year ago
i was never a fan of Superman and im still not hes to strong and it looks like he does everything with ease... I do respect him though, wasnt he the first comic book??? anyways ... Get him to fight someone of equal strength eg Doomsday or someone strong, i would pay good money to see him scrap it out with someone like Doomsday ... But i guess they will do the same thing that theyve been doing since the late 70's and get him to take on Lex Luthor again.
Gary
· 1 year ago
isnt it typical in these adaptations to use the arch enemy of the hero? Well, for Superman thats Lex! I am sure they will add tougher villains, and more action but thats hardly a guarantee of financial Success.
Patrick
· 1 year ago
Eh, I agree Lex Luther is a weak arch enemy, and I am sick of seeing him as such in the movies. I think they need to put a bad guy in that can kick superman's @$$. I for one thought lifting a gigantic Kryptonite island and launching it into space was a little much, even for supes. I think that kinda leaves out the option of someone of equal strength in the man of steel. I would like to see doomsday, he might not make the best movie, but at least it would be entertaining to see them duke it out.
Yellow Rebel
· 1 year ago
personally, I've been saying they need to make a Death of Superman movie. I'm not a big fan of Superman either, but the reality is they can't keep bringing Lex Luthor in over and over again. The Death of Superman is something that might translate into film nicely given Singer's knack for this stuff. Plus, it'll set it for a third movie (er.."Superman Returns..again?"). So yeah, I'm riding with Doomsday as well.
I mean let's face it they can't put Bizarro or Mxyzptlk into it
Kane
· 1 year ago
Y'know... I suddenly feel a bit vindicated in my relative appreciation of 'Superman Returns'.
It's 'Certified Fresh' on RottenTomatoes.com, with a 77% positive rating!
I'm actually shocked, given how much people seem to enjoy peeing on it.
Kane
· 1 year ago
(Having said that... 'Indy IV' holds the same score. Ugh.)
Jamie Williams
· 1 year ago
It's also worth mentioning that Routh and his wife were seen having dinner with Gil Adler (one of the key producers on SUPERMAN RETURNS and whose next project lined up is...you guessed it...THE MAN OF STEEL) the Saturday before last.
And then a few days later, Routh confirms that writers are on board working on the script.
So yeah...things are definitely moving foward on the sequel.
Jamie.
nicole
· 1 year ago
I just hope there a lot more action and i want to see superman hit someone i hope there are two more villains e.g doomsday and brainic. kill of jason superman's child i think he's completely not needed for the superman films.
Nicole
· 1 year ago
Lex is part of the superman history i agree he's getting old but thats how his character is ment to be. If he was younger and hot then it would spoil what we know and love about this character. I think Bizzaro could make an appearance in the next movie just look at brandon routh and use CGI make him look a little bigger and sound a bit like a zombie but not to the point where he looks completely fake. E.G look at the hulk that film did very well and i like it more than the first hulk film.
Vic Holtreman
· 1 year ago
Kane the average rating for "Superman Returns" is about 3.5/5. That's good, but not great.
Vic
Reverend
· 1 year ago
I'm half expecting them to pull a Spiderman 3 and just say forget it(gotta remember younger'ns read the site).
You know: Bizarro helps Superman find The Warden and Shazaam to defeat Doomsday who's controlling Martian Man Hunter-- and while they're looking for those guys Man O'Steel takes over in Supe's absence.
And Lois is kidnapped again.
Rev
Adrian
· 1 year ago
Big Supes fan. Since you asked, my 1st script would be the following:
Brainiac(Kryptonian A.I.,commonly known as Superman's second most important villain, following Lex Luthor) in a huge ship coming to Earth following the path of the island Superman threw into space. Brainiac eventually makes his way to Earth, under the pretense of a peaceful exchange of knowledge with the world governments. Brainiac collects all the info and inhabitants of Earth it needs to store about Earth and ask Superman to leave with it to travel the Universe. Superman, however, discovers Brainiac's true intentions( destroy every civiled planet after collecting enough info to always be the most intelligent and powerful being in the universe) with the help of Luthor. Brainiac fine out about Superman's son and captures the child to mould/enhance the child to become a weapon of great destrust(Doomsday or Darksied or Mongul). Brianiac sends the ship off with a copy of himself, but leaves an kryptonite extremely armed copy behind to destroy Superman aka Metallo. Epic battle follows with Superman winning, BUT unable to find where the ship has escaped.
That's my take in a nutshell.
Adrian
· 1 year ago
Forgot to add: child is kidnapped by Brainiac on it's ship before escaping Superman.
KEL
· 1 year ago
Routh seems like a great guy, he really has respect for Superman. He seems to know what should be in a Superman movie, what the fans want, unlike Singer. They should just let Routh make it. ;)
Honestly tho, I think he has no idea what's going on with MOS. I feel bad for him. I think he's just trying to remain optimistic, he's the only one who's said anything about the film's shooting.
What I'd do for the next Superman film is this: REQUEL. I'd keep Routh if I could, tell Singer to get his ass in gear or get a director who cares about Superman, I'd tell a COMPLETELY NEW STORY with no ties to SR or the Reeve films (no bastard child, no Supes leaving a Lois he knocked up and then mind wiped, and NO Richard White) but it wouldn't be an origin (perhaps the origin would be glanced over briefly in the credits, a la the awesome Incredible Hulk film, or maybe revealed briefly in a scene later in the film), similar to the latest Hulk film (which was GREAT!). I'd have Superman be more of a tough guy who wouldn't take **** from no one, with a personality more in line with the Byrne era Supes/the JLU cartoons, my Superman would kick some long over due ass. Also, Luthor, if he were in the film, would have a comparatively minor role, he wouldn't be the central villain this time 'round, and he'd be the evil business man Lex, like the one of the Superman: the animated series cartoons, maybe creating Metallo or something quietly. Both Ma and Pa Kent would both still be living, like the current comics and the afformentioned shows, Clark would more or less be the "real" guy, there'd be some cool flashbacks to Krypton with Jor El and Lara (not Brando, and it'd be a completely different Krypton, like nothing we've seen in the movies before), we'd see some of Brainiac there, maybe Doomsday would make a cameo, and Brainiac would be the main villain in the film. Perhaps Superman would face a minor villain for a few minutes at the beginning of the film, like Toyman or Parasite. Strykers Island would appear in it, and as the camera pans thru the prison we'd see some of Superman's famous rogues, like the Parasite or Bizarro or Toyman or even Live Wire. It'd be an awesome comic book action flick, the only thing it'd have that any previous Superman film had in it would maybe be Routh and the Williams Superman theme. I hope for something like that in MOS.
And in regards to the JLA film comment, I doubt Routh really knows what's going on with that either, he's probably just relaying what he read someplace. Altho Common, who was reportedly cast as Green Lantern/John Stewart in the JLA film, doesn't know what's up with the film either, but according to this, Justice League is "a go". Hopefully it happens, hopefully they get their heads in the game and JLA ends up being a good, well casted and directed film, with people who care about the JLA. I'm pro JLA film, I just want it to be a good JLA film.
KEL
· 1 year ago
Shoot....did I lose my comment again? How come it didn't appear? :o
KEL
· 1 year ago
Yep.....I think I lost it...... :@
INK
· 1 year ago
I like it Adrian. You are greenlit – carry on, money no object!
KEL
· 1 year ago
Man...I had this big-ass comment I just finshed tying and now it's gone....!!!!! [angryeyes]
ZAR
· 1 year ago
Why I'll really liked Christopher Reeve as Superman, the new movie just didn't work for me.
Probably a complete reboot would have been the best (you don't have to start with Krypton exploding etc.!) and not a half-hearted homage to the old movies. Let them stand for themselves.
And please, no more Lex Luthor by Kevin Spacey!
And just because of that - wasted - opportunity, X-Men 3 got ruined by the wrong director. :(
ZAR.
Vic Holtreman
· 1 year ago
Kel, I found your comment, bro.
For some reason the spam filter keeps catching your long diatribes. I'll keep teaching it that "Kel is good." :-)
Sorry about that.
Vic
KEL
· 1 year ago
LOL, Vic. Thanks. :)
Love the site's new look, BTW.
Patrick
· 1 year ago
maybe Superman Returns was good for the real Superman fans. I am not a superman fan, I have read a lot of his stand alone graphic novels, but he has always been on my lame list. unless they do a doomsday movie I really don't care what happens with The Man Of Steel. in the old movies with reeves Zodd hit him with a bus and everyone thought it was over. in Superman returns Kryptonite doesn't have much effect on him since he can move giant islands of it. they make him too powerful. the old movies were good though, I loved them as a kid.
Daniel
· 1 year ago
Just please do something different. At least the Batman movies have tried different villains. All the Superman films have been Lex. I would love to see Brainiac
greenknight333
· 1 year ago
Superman III & IV did not have Lex as the villian and Batman used the ScareCrow and Rhas AL Ghul as the villians so that was different but right back to JOker & Two-Face who both have previously featured in earlier incarnations of Batman on film.
greenknight333
· 1 year ago
Solomon Grundy anyone although it would just be a slugfest as Grundy is not the sharpest tool in the shed but I guess Luthor could figure out some way to control him...I like the Braniac idea from Adrian above or bring in a few villians who really pummel Supes by the end of Man of STeel and segue to Superman needing help in a third film and this would be a great way to start introducing some other heroes like Green Lantern & Flash and Wonderwoman coming in special cameos to help out the SuperDude...
the old man
· 1 year ago
Just the words, "Man of Steel" sounds too much to me like the story has something to prove for their to be a super hero team up. Perhaps in a third outing to keep interest high, that way these Justice League problems could be worked out. If the "Avengers stumbles then "Justice League" might go into limbo. "Watchman" might be the wild card that will push the studio to commit! Lets hope.. :)
Rob
· 1 year ago
Superman Returns was an awesome flick and that kid you complain so much about has like one scene and one line of dialogue so it aint that bad.
It was a good move Bryan Singer left X3 for Superman, his movie was so much better and X3 was one of the worst films ever made for the money and stories it had going for it.
790
· 1 year ago
Brandon is such a great dude.
No matter what, they sure picked a star. He's going to be a great actor not just a great supes.
Patrick
· 1 year ago
Yeah, Brandon Routh is pretty good, as superman he should bulk up a little more though.
790
· 1 year ago
This is hollywood he doesn't need to bulk up. (Make-up can add bulk in the costume). There's a delicate balance between Clark Kent and Superman.
Clark can't be too buff looking.
Brooster
· 1 year ago
I have a feeling DC is going to do some rewrites with Superman after they have seen what Marvel is doing and how well it is working....Green, you may be right on...i think they might try it
Danny
· 1 year ago
First of all, Lex luthor should still be in the film. But he has his girl and maybe 1 hench men. Just like the christopher reeve series. The love between lois lane and superman and superman between his battles should be separate. And the villains i propose would be metallo, braniac, parasite and cyborg superman. First the villains don't meet. The land in uncertain places and they meet with the man of steel one at a time. Then they meet each other and then they start to gang up on superman. And above all, superman should use all his super powers that the creators of the superman comics had given him. Base the movie on the comics and I'm pretty sure that it will be a total hit. Make the new superman film a film where superman can use all his powers.
greenknight333
· 1 year ago
Even if Supes used all his powers there is no way he could defeat those four on his own so bring in Flash, Green Lantern and Wonder WOman is special cameos to give us a taste of what a JL movie would be like....
Mike Mahoney-38
· 1 year ago
I disagree with the first sentence of this article about Routh telling us all of the same. Yes, Routh has been saying they're supposed to start filming MOS in early 2009, but he's also always said they're supposed to START the script sometime. Now he's saying that the script is being written. Those are two different statements.
Though, I'd be willing to bet that it's probably just an outline for certain events in the film until official writers come on board to give it a treatment or two.
Nicolaas
· 1 year ago
I didn't think Superman Returns was that bad... it just wasn't exciting enough! I mean, we have the property development as main plot and love child as the sub-plot, how exciting can it get?! The success of the revised Batman franchise is showing us a comic movie can be edgy and serious.
My opinion, and I see a lot of others, is somehow who can put up a fight, and maybe make Superman make some hard choices - like will he kill to protect the ones he love?!
So, for what its worth, my baddie choices will be Doomsday, after seeing how they got Abomination to look pretty sweet in Hulk! As well as Bizzaro, exactly is equal! I'd have Lex in there, just cause you cant have Super without Lex, but just have him orchestrate the fight.
thedonattos
· 1 year ago
"I hope that they actually make a Superman movie with Superboy in it. Tom Welling would be perfect for the part of Conner Kent (Kon-El). That would be freaken sweet having that kind of movie!"
Guy Winston
· 1 year ago
In Man of Steel, I wish they'll make a segment where kent remove his glasses showing that hairstyle change especially the curl, and his eyes from brown to blue.For sure it'll make history.
the old man
· 1 year ago
I had a girl friend once that had eyes that changed color with her emotions. Seriously, its not that far fetched of an idea.
Guy Winston
· 1 year ago
Thanx a lot man! Alas I've fin'lly found the site with good guys in my side.May I ask your opinion bro. Given the present time and technology and Reeves and Routh of same age.who in your opinion should you choose? I like both of them though.
the old man
· 1 year ago
Reeves edges out Routh, but only slightly. Personally it was Reeves ability to impart in the Superman character a little extra charisma, that "knowing smile" that tells you, I know the score and I know you know it too.
That sounds slim, but for me, that's just how slim it is.
Guy Winston
· 1 year ago
Yeah. That's true. One more thing,I think Routh doesn't need artificial muscles next time. I mean look at him worked out.Four times a week.
Paymon
· 1 year ago
Returns wasn't bad it just needed a few things...Lois was miscast. The whole attitude thing was wrong....Routh was good because he was basically asked to play Chris Reeve's Superman and he did....Superman needed to have more emotion. He was way too calm in the movie. He needed to get angry and lose it some....The new movie should explore things that never has been explored such as why do the glasses work as a disguise? How was the suit made? We know Superman is basically indestructible but why does the suit not ever get harmed? And for once, someone create a movie that doesn't include Krytonite as the way to harm Superman. That's why an alien with similar powers should face off with him. I could go on and on....
the old man
· 1 year ago
I think if even the character Superman works out its gonna show.
Check "The Science of Superman" fills in gaps the movies really don't need to cover.
Paymon
· 1 year ago
Most people (other than fans) won't see "The Science of Superman". I think they should cover things like that in the movie for just the average movie goer and not assume everyone knows it. I mean they don't have to go into a big ordeal but a little comment or something. There are kids going to see this film with their parents that have no clue what Superman is really about. We know that stuff but I think it's important to do a movie for everyone. Batman Begins did a great job of doing that. I will say that Superman is harder to write than Batman. I think Singer did a good job for the most part but the movie could have been a little darker and little more faster paced. I went to see Returns 5 times while it was at the theater because I wanted to make sure I did my part to get another one made, as did most true fans. I just want whatever WB does to be the right thing so that we can keep Supe on the big screen. That's all I'm hoping for. I don't want to wait another 20+ years to get another one made.
Guy Winston
· 1 year ago
Same here.I Did watched SMreturns 4 in theater and countless times at home.Yeah,lois indeed was miscast.Her appearance at times is somewhat irritating. Still I for one am anxious for WB to get another one made. Right now I'm busy with Science of Supe. Thanx for the reference man. I'm enjoying these brilliant comments from both of you
the old man
· 1 year ago
Well I'm at a little bit of a loss...
Paymon: You want a Superman that's a little darker but more intelligible to kids?? Which would you like to talk to your kids about more, the less intelligible parts,the darker parts or the darker unintelligible parts? Not trying to be flippant but rather curious where you think the line should be drawn?? By the way, welcome to the thread. :)
Paymon
· 1 year ago
I see what you're saying. I guess it seems like I want it both ways but basically, I want the PG-13 rating and a movie w/o a lot of the cursing but there are ways to make a movie where the kids can watch w/o catering to them. Batman Begins is a perfect example of how to do it. It's plenty dark but (in my opinion)also not too bad where you wouldn't let your kids watch it. Again, i understand that it is a challenge to write such a thing for Superman but let's let him lose his temper and let his human side come out some. I think people (general audience) would appreciate a superhero they can relate to on an emotional level. That's really the only place Superman is vulnerable. In Returns, Singer attempted to show his emotional side but I think he failed. On one hand he made Superman a boy scout w/o emotion and in control of himself and on the other hand here is Superman being a peeping Tom and a person of low integrity when he almost kissed Lois on the roof. It was Lois who pulled away not Superman. It was kind of a weasel thing to do and something that isn't consistent with who Superman is. That's just the way I see it.
Thanks for the welcome!
Vic Holtreman
· 1 year ago
@Paymon Those are some of the reasons I really wasn't a fan of SR.
Vic
Guy Winston
· 1 year ago
About Supe lossing a little temper, I'm reminded of Dragonballs.Watch that San guko outrage, yet kids in their amazement around the world never gave a damn in the end. 'bout Supe almost kissing lois,they shouldn't have done it as if they didn't had enough negative impression to what they did in Superman 2.
Paymon
· 1 year ago
Just want to give Singer credit where credit is due because the movie wasn't all bad. That's not what I'm saying. -The airplane rescue was one of the most realistic feeling action scenes I've ever seen. Though I wish they would have shown Superman actually fully change when he came out of the bar and show the innitial takeoff and hit "super flight speed" would have been a little more of an adrenalin rush. -The Clark/Superman change going up the elevator shaft was great. -The Superman flying up slowly and gaining strength from the sun was also very moving.
Negatives…I’ve mentioned a few of what I didn’t like already but here’s more: -Movie could have been tighter in its story telling. The story didn’t quite gel right. Too much unnecessary emphasis on the bad guys. -Leads me to my next beef. Not enough Clark or Superman dialogue. We don’t know if Routh is good enough for this role because he didn’t have a whole lot of time to speak. I felt there was a lot more focus than necessary on Lex’s side of the plot. When we saw Clark/Superman he was either not speaking or peeping in and feeling sorry for himself. I really was disappointed when Superman didn’t sound angry at Lex when he landed on new Krypton. He was TOO calm when speaking to Lex. Though I did get broken up a bit when Lex and his crew were beating up on Supe. But Singer gave no payoff for us seeing him hurt like that. OK so he moved an island and I don’t have the issue some people had with him moving the island even if it had Kryptonite on it. He drilled through a barrier underneath all of it to shield him from it and it eventually broke down and Kryptonite finally broke through it. He also just got a big dose of energy from the sun to be able to do that (Superman on steroids I guess).
I got to rambling some there but I can’t help it. I’m in need of more Superman on the big screen and I guess you guys are too or you wouldn’t be here right?
the old man
· 1 year ago
I don't want to come off as elitist so please tell me if you think I'm off base..
When all complexity, multi-sidedness and ambiguity is stripped from an authentic product what you have left is Kitsch- the last degenerate form of an art. Kitsch is free from all difficulties of consumption and believes in it's own perfection. This isn't a good thing for art, and cinema is suppose to be art, not just the work of journeymen. If something is explored in cinema concomitantly something needs to be left un-shown. Of course with the internet the audience has been given another avenue to say what that is. My point is it should be something, if for no other reason than preservation of intellectual curiosity and personal creativity.
williambraski
· 1 year ago
I recently re-watched Superman Returns and finally got what Singer was trying to do with the majority of the film. I don't share the gripe the sentiment that the kid was some kind of afront, rather it didn't really work with the story. It was sort of distracting.
I don't like the idea of a "super" slugfest Superman movie. Leave the extended action scenes to James Bond, TDK, etc..
They could do a neat Brainiac story, possibly. Perhaps a fortress crystal is still around containing a fragmented knowledge of Krypton. Through some turn of events it begins to infect the Internet and Earth's computers, trying to turn Earth into a new Krypton. It gains sentience and for the "big fight" Brainiac builds himself a body.
Honestly though the villains aren't like Batman's; they aren't interesting individuals much of the time. They're merely a way of throwing something at Superman he has to work through, almost as a distraction of simply trying to be "normal".
Guy Winston
· 1 year ago
Skin effect (presence of loose electrons around a live solid electric wire) can be an example of Supe's electromagnetic shield surrounding his costume making it invulnerable. Skin effect disappears when elec. power is cut off, similar also to Supe's shield. It vanished when he landed unconscious in the metropolis hospital. Notice how the doctors easily removed his costume.
Curt
· 1 year ago
I've been hoping for this sixty-second montage at the beginning of a movie where Clark reaches for his cup of coffee and then showing Superman save the cat from the tree, raise the sinking ocean liner, catch the falling woman, foil the bank robbers, and saving the commuter trapped on the train tracks, only to return to the same scene of Clark taking a sip of still steaming coffee. That and a less Superman costume-centric movie. Let's have "Heat" with Superman as one of the characters. Concentrate on Clark the reporter rather than a slugfest. A lot could be done with a great story and a mystery to solve while throwing in amazing feats of strength, demonstration of bulletproofosity :) and, of course, saving... Lana Lang. Lose the kid and the current Lois Lane.
Guy Winston
· 1 year ago
I like the last line very much: losing the kid and the current lois lane. :)
Rich Santos
· 1 year ago
Hello Everyone:
This is the first time I comment on a Superman post, so please forgive my two-finger typing style. After reading about another reboot of Superpman, I had to say something. I just hope producers can at least keep Brandon Routh on, regardless of what they do. He truly personified the character of Superman well and should not be "punished" needlessly. Brian Singer did a good job oeverall, but I think all of "Superman Returns" flaws would've been overlooked had the film had more action, like everyone commented. As a Superman fan (of the comics, cartoons, old George Reeves series, serials, etc.), I just hope they don't overdo it, because using "The Dark Knight" as a future template when Superman is an entirely different character would be disastrous. Make a new Superman movie, keep Brandon Routh, recast the rest of the characters, ramp up the action 1000%, make us cheer for Superman again and you'll see big box office numbers. Thanks... :)
Paymon
· 1 year ago
There is a way to make the movie darker and have more edge to it w/o actually making Superman darker. He shouldn't be a Pansie, or moping around, like he was in SR. But he could still stand for everything that Superman stands for but he needs to do it with more emotion. He is supposed to be raised as a human. He should get angry, sad, etc. He should be on the verge of losing it sometimes. My point is the villain can be very dark and the world around Superman could be very dark. That doesn't mean the Superman himself should have to be dark.
Also, if you are going to reboot you should reboot. I liked Routh but if you use him, the general audience will think it's another SR movie. If you want a successful box office movie, which we all do, they need to cast an A-List actor. That gives the movie instant credibility. It worked with Iron Man and it has worked for Batman. Trust me on this one. This is the most important part of redoing the movie.
Quicksilver
· 1 year ago
personally, i think the guy that plays aquaman in the smallville series would make a better superman, or iceman for a future x-men movie.
Eric
· 1 year ago
I do like the superman character but i'm mostly a movie fan. The main thing wrong with superman returns wasn't that it lacked action, but there were parts of it that were very boring. Why were they boring? Because whoever wrote the script did a horrible job. I've seen tons of movies with little action which are still good. Now dont get me wrong, i love action and i think they should add alot to the next superman movie. But the movie flopped when it didn't show very much emotion. There were only like five characters that said more than two words. And also, superman isn't a chick flick like singer tried to make it. And now he's promising endless action in the next film but a good movie needs more than that.
Now i agree with paymon that the show should get some more emotion. Don't be afraid to show superman getting scared or nervous if he sees . Build a more friendly relationship with loise and clark. Movie producers and directors are smart, they'll figure it out. But make the movie into something. P.S. dont forget the action!
Nick
· 1 year ago
My biggest issue with Superman Returns was that it lacked action, 85% of the movie was Superman/Clark Kent stalking Lois Lane. A more interesting aspect would have been first a villain of equal strength such as those in Superman 2. Lex Luthor provides an evil take over the world aspect which is not relevant unless coupled with a terrorist plot which the whole plot of destroying the East Coast was like the destruction of the West Coast in the first Supes film. Superman today would be a cynical character much like he is portrayed on the Justice League cartoon, he could have done that with this re-boot especially with the "Why the world doesn't need Superman" article that Lois wrote.
Routh wasn't the worst thing about Superman Returns and I think he played a great "Reeves-Superman" but he just didn't have that "WOW, this being is a god" feel that Superman was written to be like. If you look at what the Wachowski's did with Neo in the Matrix Trilogy, you get an idea of how much adrenaline you get get out of a character with unlimited power/flying/fighting ability. The scene in Matrix Revolutions where Neo saves Morpheus and Key Maker from being caught in the truck fire is EXACTLY the kind of thing I want to see with Superman movies.
So, I think a reboot needs to be a complete reboot with all new cast. We need a Clark Kent who is likable, someone who the audience can relate to and has his fair share of genuine real life problems / dilemma's (a bit like Peter Parker/Spiderman). It's the only way this new generation will connect with Clark Kent. Smallville does this very well and looking at the stats/ratings, it proves it's a hit with today's market.
On another note, I'd hate for the writers to spend all their time trying to come up with ways to show what Superman can do (we've sen it all before) )BUT instead focus on trying to show who Superman IS (his character, depth, emotion, etc). One way of doing this would be to explore the Krypton/Earth connection.
PS - I don't even mind another origin movie as long as it's only the 1st part in a trilogy BUT a total reboot of cast or the audience won't believe it.
Rich
· 1 year ago
Just one man's opinion: The problem I have w/ creating a Superman for a "new generation" in a reboot is that it dismisses what Superman is about. If the character is changed to suit the "flavor of the moment", Superman will cease to be who he is at the core. That was my main problem w/ "Supermna Returns". The total character of Superman/Clark Kent as depicted traditionally is very relatable to today's audiences, except to those who think everything about the world is dark (even though they live in a $250,000 home, have food on the table, and carry Blackberry's/iPhones!) I don't mean to offend anyone, but it is very hard for a person today to hold on to principles and integrity these days, which Superman is all about. That's what sets him apart from Batman, Spider-Man and other "troubled" characters. I don't want to see a brooding Superman. I wouldn't mind seeing a hero w/ problems, but one who endeavors to overcome them and tries to be as optimistic as he can under difficult cicumstances.
I like the fact that Superman/Clark are depicted as very lonely, which is the essence of Superman. For example, there's no one like him anywhere, and being a role model (and maybe being too hard on himself because of his responsibilities...) can take it's toll. I just don't want to see it overdone. I want to cheer for my hero when he takes the villian down. What the heck has happened to cheering for the hero, for goodness sake?
Twenty years from now, I can see a new generation taking stabs at "The Dark Knight" being too dark, not "realistic enough", "too realistic" or whatever so-called flaws they choose to point out. It's all relative. Superman should be about being timeless, and not just cater to fanboys or flavor-of-the-moment studios/directors who want to reinterpret who the character is. As for Brandon Routh, I hope he gets a second chance. All I want is bang-up, city-leveling action w/ a good story behind it and respect for Superman lore.
Paymon
· 1 year ago
You make a good point Rich. I think the key will be to keep Superman and the values that he stands for there but that doesn't mean that the world around him can't be dark. He can be the light in the darkness. At the same time Superman needs to lose his temper and punch a wall or something. He can't be perfect both physically and emotionally. Anyone who truly cares about something gets very angry when someone is trying to take it away or hurt the ones we care about. He simply can't be a robot. In Returns, Superman barely showed any emotion other than pouty. I want to feel some adrenaline because Superman is about to kick some serious butt. That's why we need a stronger and darker baddy other than Lex.
Nick
· 1 year ago
My biggest issue is that the villains on the small screen Superman in Smallville are better than the villains that they put in the movies, Lex Luthor could be the brains behind a super villain but not the only villain in the movie.
Rich
· 1 year ago
Couldn't agree w/ you more, Paymon and Nick. If the producers could deliver a real villain equal to (if not greater...) than Superman in strength (ex. Braniac or Doomsday), coupled w/ a fun, dramatic, exciting, vibrant and emotional script filled w/ action and great acting (w/ lots of range), and keep the core of Superman true, it will be an epic blockbuster for everyone to enjoy & cheer for. I believe we need a Superman w/ values & a strong (but vulnerable...) character for everyone, especially younger ones, to look up to. I remember seeing Christopher Reeve as Superman as a kid, and the impact was evident, given that I came from a single parent home and a tough neighborhood. 'Course a Superman movie doesn't have to be soft or sugary, but it should have core values in a world gone bitter and emotionally cold.
Gary
· 1 year ago
A Brainiac/Kandor movie would be terrific.
3ddie2oo9
· 12 months ago
I Think, 'Man Of Steel' Should Be A Sequel To 'Superman Returns', I Really Enjoyed 'Superman Returns', And There Was A Nice Little Twist At The End, With The Boy, I Think They Should Focus On The Boy From Now On, Show What Its Like For Him At School With All His Powers, Puttin Kryptonite In His Inahalor Wouldn't Work On Two Reasons, On Lex Luthors Boat, It Shown Him Having No Troubles With Bein Around Kryptonite, And As He Went To Take His Inhalor, He Realised He Didnt Need It..
All Comments
Personally, I don't think the Superman character has EVER been done just right in film or television... but - comparing them all on equal footing, without nostalgic memories that just get in the way of objectivity - I certainly don't think the recent outing was any worse than what came before.
Get him to fight someone of equal strength eg Doomsday or someone strong, i would pay good money to see him scrap it out with someone like Doomsday ... But i guess they will do the same thing that theyve been doing since the late 70's and get him to take on Lex Luthor again.
to use the arch enemy of the hero?
Well, for Superman thats Lex!
I am sure they will add tougher villains, and more action but thats hardly a guarantee of financial Success.
I mean let's face it they can't put Bizarro or Mxyzptlk into it
It's 'Certified Fresh' on RottenTomatoes.com, with a 77% positive rating!
I'm actually shocked, given how much people seem to enjoy peeing on it.
And then a few days later, Routh confirms that writers are on board working on the script.
So yeah...things are definitely moving foward on the sequel.
Jamie.
I think Bizzaro could make an appearance in the next movie just look at brandon routh and use CGI make him look a little bigger and sound a bit like a zombie but not to the point where he looks completely fake. E.G look at the hulk that film did very well and i like it more than the first hulk film.
Vic
You know: Bizarro helps Superman find The Warden and Shazaam to defeat Doomsday who's controlling Martian Man Hunter-- and while they're looking for those guys Man O'Steel takes over in Supe's absence.
And Lois is kidnapped again.
Rev
Brainiac(Kryptonian A.I.,commonly known as Superman's second most important villain, following Lex Luthor) in a huge ship coming to Earth following the path of the island Superman threw into space. Brainiac eventually makes his way to Earth, under the pretense of a peaceful exchange of knowledge with the world governments. Brainiac collects all the info and inhabitants of Earth it needs to store about Earth and ask Superman to leave with it to travel the Universe. Superman, however, discovers Brainiac's true intentions( destroy every civiled planet after collecting enough info to always be the most intelligent and powerful being in the universe) with the help of Luthor. Brainiac fine out about Superman's son and captures the child to mould/enhance the child to become a weapon of great destrust(Doomsday or Darksied or Mongul). Brianiac sends the ship off with a copy of himself, but leaves an kryptonite extremely armed copy behind to destroy Superman aka Metallo. Epic battle follows with Superman winning, BUT unable to find where the ship has escaped.
That's my take in a nutshell.
Honestly tho, I think he has no idea what's going on with MOS. I feel bad for him. I think he's just trying to remain optimistic, he's the only one who's said anything about the film's shooting.
What I'd do for the next Superman film is this: REQUEL. I'd keep Routh if I could, tell Singer to get his ass in gear or get a director who cares about Superman, I'd tell a COMPLETELY NEW STORY with no ties to SR or the Reeve films (no bastard child, no Supes leaving a Lois he knocked up and then mind wiped, and NO Richard White) but it wouldn't be an origin (perhaps the origin would be glanced over briefly in the credits, a la the awesome Incredible Hulk film, or maybe revealed briefly in a scene later in the film), similar to the latest Hulk film (which was GREAT!). I'd have Superman be more of a tough guy who wouldn't take **** from no one, with a personality more in line with the Byrne era Supes/the JLU cartoons, my Superman would kick some long over due ass. Also, Luthor, if he were in the film, would have a comparatively minor role, he wouldn't be the central villain this time 'round, and he'd be the evil business man Lex, like the one of the Superman: the animated series cartoons, maybe creating Metallo or something quietly. Both Ma and Pa Kent would both still be living, like the current comics and the afformentioned shows, Clark would more or less be the "real" guy, there'd be some cool flashbacks to Krypton with Jor El and Lara (not Brando, and it'd be a completely different Krypton, like nothing we've seen in the movies before), we'd see some of Brainiac there, maybe Doomsday would make a cameo, and Brainiac would be the main villain in the film. Perhaps Superman would face a minor villain for a few minutes at the beginning of the film, like Toyman or Parasite. Strykers Island would appear in it, and as the camera pans thru the prison we'd see some of Superman's famous rogues, like the Parasite or Bizarro or Toyman or even Live Wire. It'd be an awesome comic book action flick, the only thing it'd have that any previous Superman film had in it would maybe be Routh and the Williams Superman theme. I hope for something like that in MOS.
And in regards to the JLA film comment, I doubt Routh really knows what's going on with that either, he's probably just relaying what he read someplace. Altho Common, who was reportedly cast as Green Lantern/John Stewart in the JLA film, doesn't know what's up with the film either, but according to this, Justice League is "a go". Hopefully it happens, hopefully they get their heads in the game and JLA ends up being a good, well casted and directed film, with people who care about the JLA. I'm pro JLA film, I just want it to be a good JLA film.
You are greenlit – carry on, money no object!
Probably a complete reboot would have been the best (you don't have to start with Krypton exploding etc.!) and not a half-hearted homage to the old movies. Let them stand for themselves.
And please, no more Lex Luthor by Kevin Spacey!
And just because of that - wasted - opportunity, X-Men 3 got ruined by the wrong director. :(
ZAR.
For some reason the spam filter keeps catching your long diatribes. I'll keep teaching it that "Kel is good." :-)
Sorry about that.
Vic
Love the site's new look, BTW.
It was a good move Bryan Singer left X3 for Superman, his movie was so much better and X3 was one of the worst films ever made for the money and stories it had going for it.
No matter what, they sure picked a star.
He's going to be a great actor not just a great supes.
There's a delicate balance between Clark Kent and Superman.
Clark can't be too buff looking.
Though, I'd be willing to bet that it's probably just an outline for certain events in the film until official writers come on board to give it a treatment or two.
The success of the revised Batman franchise is showing us a comic movie can be edgy and serious.
My opinion, and I see a lot of others, is somehow who can put up a fight, and maybe make Superman make some hard choices - like will he kill to protect the ones he love?!
So, for what its worth, my baddie choices will be Doomsday, after seeing how they got Abomination to look pretty sweet in Hulk! As well as Bizzaro, exactly is equal! I'd have Lex in there, just cause you cant have Super without Lex, but just have him orchestrate the fight.
Personally it was Reeves ability to impart in the Superman character a little extra charisma, that "knowing smile" that tells you, I know the
score and I know you know it too.
That sounds slim, but for me, that's just how slim it is.
Check "The Science of Superman" fills in gaps the movies really don't need to cover.
Paymon: You want a Superman that's a little darker but more intelligible to kids?? Which would you like to talk to your kids about more, the less intelligible parts,the darker parts or the darker unintelligible parts? Not trying to be flippant but rather curious where you think the line should be drawn?? By the way, welcome to the thread. :)
Thanks for the welcome!
Vic
-The airplane rescue was one of the most realistic feeling action scenes I've ever seen. Though I wish they would have shown Superman actually fully change when he came out of the bar and show the innitial takeoff and hit "super flight speed" would have been a little more of an adrenalin rush.
-The Clark/Superman change going up the elevator shaft was great.
-The Superman flying up slowly and gaining strength from the sun was also very moving.
Negatives…I’ve mentioned a few of what I didn’t like already but here’s more:
-Movie could have been tighter in its story telling. The story didn’t quite gel right. Too much unnecessary emphasis on the bad guys.
-Leads me to my next beef. Not enough Clark or Superman dialogue. We don’t know if Routh is good enough for this role because he didn’t have a whole lot of time to speak. I felt there was a lot more focus than necessary on Lex’s side of the plot. When we saw Clark/Superman he was either not speaking or peeping in and feeling sorry for himself. I really was disappointed when Superman didn’t sound angry at Lex when he landed on new Krypton. He was TOO calm when speaking to Lex. Though I did get broken up a bit when Lex and his crew were beating up on Supe. But Singer gave no payoff for us seeing him hurt like that. OK so he moved an island and I don’t have the issue some people had with him moving the island even if it had Kryptonite on it. He drilled through a barrier underneath all of it to shield him from it and it eventually broke down and Kryptonite finally broke through it. He also just got a big dose of energy from the sun to be able to do that (Superman on steroids I guess).
I got to rambling some there but I can’t help it. I’m in need of more Superman on the big screen and I guess you guys are too or you wouldn’t be here right?
When all complexity, multi-sidedness and ambiguity is stripped from an authentic product what you have left is Kitsch- the last degenerate form of an art. Kitsch is free from all difficulties of consumption and believes in it's own perfection. This isn't a good thing for art, and cinema is suppose to be art, not just the work of journeymen. If something is explored in cinema concomitantly something needs to be left un-shown. Of course with the internet the audience has been given another avenue to say what that is. My point is it should be something, if for no other reason than preservation of intellectual curiosity and personal creativity.
I don't like the idea of a "super" slugfest Superman movie. Leave the extended action scenes to James Bond, TDK, etc..
They could do a neat Brainiac story, possibly. Perhaps a fortress crystal is still around containing a fragmented knowledge of Krypton. Through some turn of events it begins to infect the Internet and Earth's computers, trying to turn Earth into a new Krypton. It gains sentience and for the "big fight" Brainiac builds himself a body.
Honestly though the villains aren't like Batman's; they aren't interesting individuals much of the time. They're merely a way of throwing something at Superman he has to work through, almost as a distraction of simply trying to be "normal".
This is the first time I comment on a Superman post, so please forgive my two-finger typing style. After reading about another reboot of Superpman, I had to say something. I just hope producers can at least keep Brandon Routh on, regardless of what they do. He truly personified the character of Superman well and should not be "punished" needlessly. Brian Singer did a good job oeverall, but I think all of "Superman Returns" flaws would've been overlooked had the film had more action, like everyone commented. As a Superman fan (of the comics, cartoons, old George Reeves series, serials, etc.), I just hope they don't overdo it, because using "The Dark Knight" as a future template when Superman is an entirely different character would be disastrous. Make a new Superman movie, keep Brandon Routh, recast the rest of the characters, ramp up the action 1000%, make us cheer for Superman again and you'll see big box office numbers. Thanks... :)
Also, if you are going to reboot you should reboot. I liked Routh but if you use him, the general audience will think it's another SR movie. If you want a successful box office movie, which we all do, they need to cast an A-List actor. That gives the movie instant credibility. It worked with Iron Man and it has worked for Batman. Trust me on this one. This is the most important part of redoing the movie.
Now i agree with paymon that the show should get some more emotion. Don't be afraid to show superman getting scared or nervous if he sees . Build a more friendly relationship with loise and clark. Movie producers and directors are smart, they'll figure it out. But make the movie into something.
P.S. dont forget the action!
http://www.petitiononline.com/BRSupes/petition....
So, I think a reboot needs to be a complete reboot with all new cast. We need a Clark Kent who is likable, someone who the audience can relate to and has his fair share of genuine real life problems / dilemma's (a bit like Peter Parker/Spiderman). It's the only way this new generation will connect with Clark Kent. Smallville does this very well and looking at the stats/ratings, it proves it's a hit with today's market.
On another note, I'd hate for the writers to spend all their time trying to come up with ways to show what Superman can do (we've sen it all before) )BUT instead focus on trying to show who Superman IS (his character, depth, emotion, etc). One way of doing this would be to explore the Krypton/Earth connection.
PS - I don't even mind another origin movie as long as it's only the 1st part in a trilogy BUT a total reboot of cast or the audience won't believe it.
I like the fact that Superman/Clark are depicted as very lonely, which is the essence of Superman. For example, there's no one like him anywhere, and being a role model (and maybe being too hard on himself because of his responsibilities...) can take it's toll. I just don't want to see it overdone. I want to cheer for my hero when he takes the villian down. What the heck has happened to cheering for the hero, for goodness sake?
Twenty years from now, I can see a new generation taking stabs at "The Dark Knight" being too dark, not "realistic enough", "too realistic" or whatever so-called flaws they choose to point out. It's all relative. Superman should be about being timeless, and not just cater to fanboys or flavor-of-the-moment studios/directors who want to reinterpret who the character is. As for Brandon Routh, I hope he gets a second chance. All I want is bang-up, city-leveling action w/ a good story behind it and respect for Superman lore.
Vic