Of course scifi fans get ignored. If they didn't then shows like Battlestar Galactica would be on regular network television. I'm not sure when it started, but SciFi has been getting a bad rap perhaps since Misfits of Science. Journeyman is a brilliant show that for whatever reason the studios failed to give it a decent chance. The rating were not horrible, at least by NBC standards of late, but it could have been better with an improved timeslot. I guess we'll just have to accept the stigma of being out of touch nerds and continue to enjoy our entertainment elsewhere.
Kane
· 1 year ago
Could it be a case where sci-fi/genre fans are often more tech-savvy and therefore download more or buy full season DVDs? If this is the case, they wouldn't really be registering highly in ratings?
I remember 'Star Trek: TNG', 'DS9' and 'Voyager' used to screen late at night, rarely for more than a few months at a time and almost always a few seasons late here in Australia... yet I know plenty of Trekkies who splurged on the VHS releases (always in plentiful supply at Target) and then on the DVDs. So there's obviously an audience there.
Then again... it could be argued that sci-fi fans (and fanboys in general) are a far smaller demographic than they (we) think. In spite of what a weekend at ComicCon (or a few minutes online) might suggest, I'd hedge a bet that the number of sci-fi fans out there doesn't come anywhere near the number of people tuning into 'Grey's Anatomy' or '24'.
It's why studios often overlook 'the fans' when making movies like 'Transformers' or any superhero flick. We just refuse to believe it.
Scott
· 1 year ago
I think Networks ignore Sci-Fi shows, not just fans. Cable channels have made hits from shows like The 4400, The Dead Zone, and Smallville. The big networks just don't give shows like these time to find an audience before they pull the plug. Remember how FOX screwed up Firefly a few years back? They moved it around and even changed the order of the episodes. A series can't succeed if it doesn't have its own network's support.
Scott
· 1 year ago
I'm all for Journeyman coming back. I think they got much better as they went along and the show had strong potential to continue.
steve adams
· 1 year ago
Just like everything Neilsen ratings will eventually adapt and use input from Tivo and cable subscriptions. They will do it because it will be cheaper and more acurate... Its just a matter of time before were all Borg.
Joel Fagin
· 1 year ago
Part of the reason sci-fi shows get cancelled is not because they are not successful but because you can make a different show which is just AS successful for less money. Reality TV, basically, is a better return on investment than effects-laden sci-fi.
It's logical from a money-men perspective.
itsmeagain
· 1 year ago
Joel Fagan Reality tv is awful just the idea that these people know a camera is on them destroys the idea of the word reality.I don't watch none of them.Yes the sci fi channel and mythbusters rule on my tv.So I must be one of those minorities the nelson ratings ignore.I loved Journeyman project and was disappointed when it was canceled.If they keep bringing on very stupid showslike the oxymoron "REALITY TV" on tv such as "dancing with the stars"(I would rather have my teeth pulled than watch that crap)or "amucking race",or "big brother" I will just quit watching tv all together.
John Doe
· 1 year ago
I am a Nielson Family and use my DVR and it is recorded what I watch live and on DVR. I'm a huge sci fi fan and hope my viewing choices can help!
Scooter
· 1 year ago
I had to laugh at the young-uns who said maybe it was due to sci-fi fans being the type to download DVDs...
Sci-Fi's have always been screwed by the networks. Go back to the history of Star Trek (the original), which was almost prevented from airing because the script had a woman as the second in command. The show also weaved parables highlighting the foolishness of war, racism, and the Cold War into the general plots.
Sci-Fi shows tend to sneak in subversive, non-mainstream ideas and that always makes media executives nervous. Critical thinking leads to questioning authority, and 'sedition'.
It's not a coincidence that US defense companies like Westinghouse and General Electric thought it prudent to purchase major US networks.
But back to the point - yes, Neilson's ratings is social engineering and the dumbing down of America.
But that doesn't explain why shows like Farscape were cancelled... sci-fi shows are just plain EXPENSIVE compared to idiots doing karaoke under a spotlight.
Joe Example
· 1 year ago
Go read Joe S. production notes on how fricken hard it was to get Babylon-5 made. It boils down to keeping people's attention and building viewership.
Another problem is that TV tends to fall into easy to understand story / plots. Think of the Wander-who-does-good-deeds. Touch by an Angle and Knight Rider where identical shows in this respect. You must have your heroes and villains identifiable by their archetypes so anybody with in the first 5 minutes of watching a show can figure out who everyone is and where they stand.
Then there is the Deus ex machina problem. Every show must be neatly tied up at the end of the 43 minutes; and too often technobable is the rescue.
Finally, it's damn expensive and not a sure sell.
Firefly_monkey
· 1 year ago
Grr, I'm still steaming about the cancellation of Firefly! That's one of the best SciFi shows eva! I guess the fat "meeting goers" at the stations thought that since their tastes in TV sucked, Firefly must not be doing good and it's safe to mess with the schedule over a stupid football game. RRRRRRRRRRRR!
Randy Reefer
· 1 year ago
Dead Like Me was a favorite of mine, I can only re-watch the cancelled show{s) via Netflix, ditto for Firefly and their one-off offspring: Serenity. Less brutish than many other more violent (thus 'simpler') popular successes in the sci-fi genre, they actually they had too much humanity to succeed in a big way, particularly now. We love war too much, we're war mongers and will push it until all other options are crushed. We bathe in violence.. to others, not so much in it's eventual karmic kickback tho'. We're too busy dumbing down because it's easy, specially if you're mentally impaired. Idiocracy is the point.
aunt azalea
· 1 year ago
I so agree- My favorite show Dresden Files was ripped off the air even though it had a large loyal following. I am still fighting for the show every single day and I have never done that, ever, for any show.
Screen Rant
· 1 year ago
Yet "Survivor" and "Big Brother" continue to assault us year after year after year....
Vic
JH
· 1 year ago
You are mistaken on one important point... All of the new markets run by Nielsen measure and count time shifted viewing in their ratings. Older markets which only counted a households viewing and live broadcasts are being switched to newer equipment which measures each individual's viewing.
Don't rely on only wikipedia for your sources.
Dukrous
· 1 year ago
TiVo data is already used by Nielsen for ratings. They've been using them for a few years now. Every TiVo collects and submits data to be used as a Nielsen household. Here's an article from 2004: http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/news/2002/09/55091
Also, TiVo is now giving data directly to the studios, providing second-by-second breakdowns on viewer numbers and activity. This started in January of last year,
Mat D.
· 1 year ago
Joe is right though, it is a lot cheaper to keep cranking out Survivor and Big Brother than it is to produce something like Firefly or Journeyman. It's about putting out the least amount of money and getting the max return. Fan loyalty does not figure into it. Sci-fi fans may be the most loyal, but are not as much of an influence as they would like.
Sean Hood
· 1 year ago
Sci-Fi inspires a ardent, well-educated following that is always be better serviced on cable. Cable allows for more risks and subversive storylines.
But pitching Sci-Fi is always the most difficult of the genres. Most executives are not fans of sci-fi; they find the concepts too "heady" and the productions too expensive.
Good points to all, with your different perspectives on the issue.
Sean Hood: I agree that Sci-Fi gets serviced better on cable, but when on-the-fence fans get exposed to the Sci Fi Channel, sometimes, it's not the best representation of Sci-Fi if they come across the Saturday night B movies they spam the air with, though on a rare occasion they tend to surprise me.
Bruce: Yes, I'm hoping that the Sci-Fi channel takes a turn for the better. Ultimately, I hope that other channels like HBO, Showtime or even A@E produce science fiction. I'd like to see Sci-Fi treated with the same sophistication as Madmen or The Wire.
There is a website trying to get Nielsen to change their methodology to a better, more accurate ratings system.
Its called www.HelpChangetv.com and while it focuses on the US Born Latino market underrepresentation in their current system (U.S. born Latinos have a median age of 18 and MANY are Sci Fi fanatics) it is also a way to get them to become more accountable for all of their ratings services.
Since Nielsen is a virtual monopoly, sites like HelpChangeTV.com and this blog are necessary for change. It won’t happen any other way.
790
· 1 year ago
Scooter you made some good points. Farscape was cancelled because it was too expensive and Sci-fi channel had to decide between Stargate SG1 and Farscape.
790
· 1 year ago
Firefly_Monkey I heard that the (meeting goers) did have it in for Firefly. Some of them were upset the way Josh left Buffy to work on it. ^ John Doe, could you just not watch ANY reality shows and of course all reruns of LEXX. Thanks so much!!
790
· 1 year ago
This reality crap kinda all started with the cable show Eco Challenge that morphed (like a Decepticon) into Survivor... I actually did some work on that show (beg forgiveness) and I'll tell ya they filmed that entire show and got back to the states and had no idea what to do. Some editor brought in some lame ass congo music,the other 12 editors said "ya sounds good" and they just threw that crap show together... Next thing its BIGGEST thing on tv. Shows like Survivor and Idol are way cheaper than your average Stargate episode. Its quantity NOT quality anymore. Randy Reefer knows what I'm talking bout.
dvdchris
· 1 year ago
Its high time the Nielsen monopoly came to an end. Don't we have better technology now? Why isn't a ratings meter built into all new cable boxes, for example, and anonymous data on viewing sent back to the cable systems over their own network? 60% of the country subscribes to cable. Data collected by the cable companies would seem to be better and more accurate than the tiny sliver of selected households that Nielsen monitors.
Sp`ange
· 1 year ago
C3 Ratings are being use more to cover the use of DVRs. This is the commercial ratings. It basically shows if the show is retaining viewers through the commercials.
As much as I agree with the view of this article, I believe the author is not well informed nor tuned in to how tv works.
Start looking at the non-broadcast networks and you'll start to see where tv is heading. USA, TNT and FX are prime examples.
Bruce Simmons
· 1 year ago
Hey Sp`ange - All I do know about TV is that ads that bring in $$ help fund the shows we watch, or they fade. To me, that's the bottom line and it's kind of scary if you think about some of the ads that are out there.
It confounds me that some Sci-Fi shows can have entertaining character development, seem to be well written to account for story details, but thematically does not seem to catch on with the general populace. Look at Lost... compelling in the curiosity department, gritty survival on island story, but yet we have unexplained phenoms like wispy black smoke that kills people and invisible dinosaurs. (The moment they explain that black smoke thing, I'm outta there!)
If I were a Nielsen household, I'd probably screw up the ratings too.. I tend to tape the stuff I really like to watch later, and leave the drabble on the tube that I am curious about, while I write.
If they monitored TiVo, and I were a TiVo user, then things would be different. That doesn't even count the shows I go catch online, but then, you can't ff through the commercials on those outlets, so they should be counted.. right? Are they counted in ratings counts?
I have more questions as I read more comments, and thanks to everyone who's pitching in their thoughts and opinions.
Regards - Bruce
Bill
· 1 year ago
I think this article is bunk. Why? Not all Nielson houses are the standard Idol-watching families. I don't do Idol, CSI, 'reality" shows or Seinfeld. I like Scifi. Not all of it, but I trend to like it, at least give it a chance. I also watch some primetime big shows that I enjoy that are more standard family shows. (No, I'm not going to sit on SciFi channel 24/7) I'm not who you say decides our show success for us, yet I have had an opportunity to be a Nielson house before. Not married, no kids, just me. I don't know how many others like me are in the mix at any time, but there are some. As there are more standard families than there are geeks like us, then the statistics may say that that the majority of viewers like Idol and other stuff we think is crap. But that's what this is there to discover, in order to maximize advertizer effectivness. If you want to toss in a wrench, give unfair preference to geek minority over the mass public, then you want to corrupt the system and make it not do what it's intended to do, and at that point why bother at all?
Zipper Stevens
· 1 year ago
Reality TV started with MTV's real world (yes, I'm ignoring COPS and let me explain why...).
TV execs believe the modern viewing public want touchy-feely TV where people sit around and talk about how they feel and stuff that Joe and Jane "EVERYVIEWER" can relate to. So, what's easier to relate to? people talking about the "next hook up/last break up" or a big honking spaceship that doesn't care about you or your mama? It's all about what the viewer can RELATE to.
SciFi is excellent escape, but it will always be relegated to the big screen where it thrives with a nice budget and doesn't get cancelled half way through watching it.The theatre will exist to fill the so-called niche audiences. What are the biggest movie franchises out there? Star Wars and Star Trek. Other big movies? Horror films, Nightmare on Elm Street, Halloween, Friday the 13th. How many weekly horror shows are there? Other big films? The Ten Commandments. How many regular religious series are there on TV?
It's got to be a cheap and easy buck with the high return. TV is the way for reality. The Cinema will have to satisfy everyone else. Therefore, I propose TV will always SUCK unless you enjoy the NFL, College Football/Basketball, MLB and the occasional NBA game. Which I do. After all that, it's the Simpsons...
Bruce Simmons
· 1 year ago
Well put Zipper. So we drop are cable bill, and use those bucks where it counts, the theater! OK, so maybe not, but we can dream...
Hey! You left off NASCAR!
790
· 1 year ago
Bruce Simmons, great article!!
Hardly bunk.
Rob
· 1 year ago
I Miss Firefly :(
Andy
· 1 year ago
I'm still pissed they canceled the Blade tv series. It wasn't bad at all and seemed to be pretty popular. Hopefully enough people buy the Season on DVD to talk them back into it.
790
· 1 year ago
Yea Zipper I guess the Real World was kinda first. It never received the sucKcess that survivor did however. Survivor was the juggernaut of Prime time reality. Then we got Idol and Dancing with whatever. Then it just took off into crap tv orbit.
I have to admit that I don't have cable, Tivo or even a netflix account. The only tv shows I wacth these days are MLB baseball, 24, Prison Break, SNL and recently the Sarah Connor show. I have soo many dvd's and dvd's of tv shows I havnt watched yet that I'm good for about 2 years.
Reality shows arnt even tv to me there some sort of toxic mutation.
Panda
· 1 year ago
What really stinks about the whole Network Reality TV movement is it's not 'real', it's basically so they don't have to pay actors. "You stir some s**t on our show, we pay you with 15 minutes of fame." It's not enteraining, it's not revolutionary, it's not good for society, and it's definitely not good for Panda's sanity!!!
Show some creativity! Stop pumping the networks with this crap, stop with the remakes of old movies or turning 60's TV shows into movies, and write something thoughtful that we, your loyal viewers, can enjoy for cryin-out-loud!
Firefly and Blade are two perfect examples of good series that weren't really given a chance. Now the choice is back to Big Brother or Saved By The Bell re-runs. At least BSG may finish out the final season.
Bruce Simmons
· 1 year ago
You hit it on the head Panda - cheap labor, very little writing, and in some cases, wives of studio heads hosting the show.. oo, I better not go there.
And yes, we better look at figuring out how to fix it because Panda is talking about herself in the 3rd person...
790
· 1 year ago
Yea Panda I totally agree. Reality shows are worse but the slew of remakes sickens me.
Did you guys know that Universal just signed a 6 year deal with Hasbro to turn their board games into movies. So we can expect to see movie versions of CandyLand, Battleship, Clue, Ouiji board and Monopoly. Maybe if were unlucky will get a movie version of Hungry Hungry Hippos... Battle Bots might be good. (What am I saying?) After a few of these films I'll be begging for a Aliens vs Predator Requiem sequel.
790
· 1 year ago
Unfortunitly Bruce reality tv is thriving right now. Fix it, the studios don't see anything wrong with it.
Until the hordes of mindless neilsen scum stop watching the shows like American Bingo night and american idol were doomed to watch our dvd's and remember the good ole days.
David
· 1 year ago
Why is Nielsen even relevant these days? With the internet in most every household, there should be some way for a website to be able to track viewing habits of audiences so we can get decent shows back on the air. I am a big fan of Firefly, and after watching the DVD version of the series, cannot believe that this outstanding show was canceled, yet we have to endure garbage like "Flavor of Love", "Celebrity Rehab", "Keeping up with the Kardashians" , and all of the other awful reality shows currently out there. Nielsen only tracks Nielsen households. A website would be able to track every household who chooses to participate. Seems to me this would provide a more accurate picture of current TV preferences.
790
· 1 year ago
David you would be surprised how many folks don't have internet. Once you leave the big cities and get out in the country internet is scarce. Alot of people over the age of 60 don't have or even care about the Web.
Jojo
· 1 year ago
I disagree that sci-fi fans get the shaft.
Terminator sarah chronicles is doing awesome business and gets a lot of viewers.
On top of that this show delivers more in terms of action and thrills than all other sci-fi programs combined.
Kane
· 1 year ago
Scooter... as the first of those *ahem* 'young-uns who said maybe it was due to sci-fi fans being the type to download DVDs,' I think you're missing the overall point of the post, which also included specific mention of DVDs and even VHS.
I'm 28, by the way, and well aware that downloading came long after sci-fi TV started getting the shaft.
My point was that sci-fi fans in general are more into buying and keeping, hence why department stores were always chock-full of 'Star Trek' videos, while TV would barely touch the shows. Besides, I interpreted the article more as a current issue, given how much more sci-fi/genre TV is being produced.
I mean, isn't it blatantly obvious why sci-fi got the shaft prior to this decade? The cost alone would be through the roof and not worth the investment if advertising dollars can go toward medical dramas.
As for 'reality' TV - I've got to admit, I love some of it. 'Survivor' and 'Amazing Race' are brilliant game shows, 'Big Brother' (here in Australia) is a fun social experiment (or was before it replaced interesting individuals with dopey twenty-something bimbos and surfer dudes) and shows like 'Idol' can be a bit of a laugh for anyone keeping their finger on the pulse of pop culture. The word 'reality' is taken way too literally, I think, since many of the shows are just a more textured, modern take on outdated game shows, lifestyle programs and things like 'American Bandstand'. But - yes - it's become silly and 95% of the crap needs to go.
790
· 1 year ago
Jojo I agree that Connor Cronicles is real good but I wonder how it would stack up in real tv season? ^ Just a reminder gang the season finale of Terminator, the Sarah Connor Cronicles is on tonight!!!!!
SmudgeTheFirst
· 1 year ago
I wouldn't say ALL of Sci-fi gets shafted, but Firefly certainly did. Whether or not you're a fan of the show you certainly can't argue that FOX never gave it a chance.
Scratch
· 1 year ago
Why do networks ignore Sci Fi fans? Advertising.
Advertisers want viewers that can be swayed by a 30-second emotional appeal. Most Sci Fi fans are too "logical".
Karl
· 1 year ago
I'm sorry but this article does not make a whole lot of sense. First of all your understanding of the neilsen system is flawed; there is no one group of families that represent the ratings for whole of America. Nielsen families are changed every few months and the selection process is completely random. You say that this audience has made shows like 60 Minutes, Seinfeld, ER, Survivor, CSI & American Idol #1 shows in their timeslot well, the same audience has also made shows Like LOST and Heroes ratings blockbusters. I work for one of the big 4 networks and the problem is not the the networks but the content of these shows. Today scifi is given more chance on network tv then ever before. After the sucess of LOST networks have been greenlighting Sci-fi shows left right and center. It is just that these shows themselves are not good enough.
And I don't buy any excuse that comes from Journeyman, I'm sorry but the fans of that show have no legitimate argument in crying foul about the treatment of that show. That show was given the best treatment NBC it could give. I mean come on, it was given the post-Heroes timeslot which was one of top rated show on NBC at that time, it was also given a decent amount of time to find an audience and allowed to air all its episodes. I personally did not like the show and the critics were at best lukewarm about it. I feel that scifi fans are like Star Trek fans, they accept and enjoy crap just because they are glad that scifi and it is being made
Like I said before the problem is not the networks but the shows themselves. Yes sometimes the networks do screw up the shows (like the Jericho example you mentioned, a show which started with strong ratings but then lost the momentum after a ridiculously long hiatus) but more often then not it is the shows themselves that are to blame. A lot of these shows are given ample opportunity: NBC gave Journeyman the post-Heroes timeslot and ABC gave Invasion the post-Lost timeslot which are the best timeslots any scifi show could ever hope for, but still those shows failed, that does not signify lack of support from the network but the lack of appeal of the shows themselves. I thought Bionic Woman was absolutely atrocious and even though I really wanted to like Terminator but gave up on it after the 4th episode; the story is just so bland I mean, there is no sense of mystery, there is no sense of intrigue and due to budget constraints the action is very mediocre. Honestly the only scifi shows that I really give a damn about are LOST and Heroes. Even bad episodes of Lost and Heroes are better then anything on tv. I mean the worst episode of Lost ("Jack's tattoo's episode) is miles better then the best episode of Bionic Woman. JJ Abrams is developing a new show for next season which looks like it could be the next big Sci fi hit
Kane
· 1 year ago
I've gotta admit... Karl makes some extremely good points and - for the most part - I totally agree.
It does often seem to be the case that support for sci-fi TV comes from people who'd accept almost anything. But, if that's the case, it's highly unlikely those same people would have the insight to see the forest for the trees.
It's human nature to think of ourselves as more worthy and important than we may actually be.
Screen Rant
· 1 year ago
"Nielsen families are changed every few months and the selection process is completely random."
Yes, and those same random families are responsible for keeping crap on the air like "Survivor" and "Big Brother" year after year, as I mentioned above. Look at many of the lowbrow sitcoms that flourish, heck, don't many people here consider most of what's on TV (with the exception of what's been noted in this thread) to be utter garbage?
That's what our "random" Neilson families help keep on the air.
The average person has lousy taste and will accept almost anything when it comes to film and TV, so I think a big part of the problem is that those who actually recognize quality are in the minority. Slice that down further by including only those in that group that enjoy sci-fi and then yeah, I can see how the numbers won't support a series.
Think I'm being a jerk? Many of the replies I receive when I give a lousy movie or TV show the review it deserves rake me over the coals.
I'm telling you, we're headed for the world shown in Mike Judge's film "Idiocracy."
Fortunately those are the exception rather than the rule here at Screen Rant. :-)
Vic
Kane
· 1 year ago
I guess it all comes down to personal opinion and it's a good thing sites like Screen Rant exist for people to express them, eh? ;o)
Still... as much as it frustrates me to see 'dumb humour' films like those from the Scary Movie team do well... it's a bit rich to suggest the audience is "wrong" for liking this stuff or that their taste is lacking. There is no "right" or "wrong" when it comes to entertainment - just differences of opinion.
As an awesome lecturer once taught me: never underestimate the lowest common denominator.
Sphinx
· 1 year ago
It's time the Nielsen system was updated. The Nielsen families do not represent what my household watches! I want to see good, quality shows on the air - not this crap the Nielsen people are watching.
Previously posted: "And I don't buy any excuse that comes from Journeyman, I'm sorry but the fans of that show have no legitimate argument in crying foul about the treatment of that show. That show was given the best treatment NBC it could give. I mean come on, it was given the post-Heroes timeslot which was one of top rated show on NBC at that time, it was also given a decent amount of time to find an audience and allowed to air all its episodes. I personally did not like the show and the critics were at best lukewarm about it. I feel that scifi fans are like Star Trek fans, they accept and enjoy crap just because they are glad that scifi and it is being made" Sorry man, I absolutely disagree with you on this. The post-Heroes timeslot was not ideal for this show as the two appealed to two totally different audiences! Whereas Heroes is an over-the-top, humans with super-powers show, Journeyman is a family drama with hints of sci-fi; the sci-fi, however, is not the main focus of the show. There was also lackluster promotion for this show on NBC's part...
Screen Rant
· 1 year ago
"As an awesome lecturer once taught me: never underestimate the lowest common denominator."
On THAT we agree, lol. :-)
Vic
meh
· 1 year ago
I can't believe no one has mentioned the move to digital broadcasts. With the potential for two-way communication from every digital cable box back to the source, Neilson ratings should become obsolete. The networks will be able to have statistics on what EVERYONE is watching, not just a random selection.
johnny-K
· 1 year ago
It seems to me like the ratings are far from acurate.. And when it comes to commercials people watch half the first one and mabe the 2 las ones not to miss the rest of the show- its pretty hard to know what you are getting for your money.
And now days people dont let themselfs become slaves of the timeslots anymore- you don't have to make sure you are at your home 8 every saturday for the whole year just to watch Lost(or whatever) -people use tivo , dvd recorders and downloads- not to talk of buying the whole season on dvd.
Could they make tv series just for dvd sale? to risky? why not sign up people on line- would you like more star trek enterpise? sign on - when soandso many million people sign on we start bringing you the Bakula!
-If we fan boys and sci-fi fans are so many and willing to pay for good sci-fi could we not make this happen?
darkbhudda
· 1 year ago
The ratings are skewed by who they choose to sample.
I participated in one of the Australian ratings systems about 7 years ago. 300 households was the sample size, and they actually told me my demographic, single males, was woefully under-represented.
That said, a lot of people I know like American Idol and shows like Law & Order, even the sci fi fans, so it doesn't surprise me they are high in the ratings.
Divers
· 1 year ago
There's something to it... I've seen a lot Sci-Fi shows cancelled, while there was such a huge fanbase that this seemed like a great mistake... Perhaps it's because the advertisements have a lesser effect on tech-savvy people (they tend to greatly ignore all ads) and because of that shows that are meant for such people have lesser ad-incomes.
Bruce Simmons
· 1 year ago
You have a great point Divers.
Ads are useless time filling fodder that gets in the way of the show and they never persuade me, EVER.
The scary part though, is that they do work or they wouldn't exist!! dAh!!!
Kane
· 1 year ago
Jeepers, Divers - I think you've hit the nail on the head! (I'm not being sarcastic, btw)
The very science of television money-making means that shows aimed at an easily manipulated audience will always win out over those that appeal to the more discerning viewer. It's simple logic, when you think about it... since, without advertising that works, there simply is no free television.
Kane
· 1 year ago
And... with that in mind... let us all click on an ad.
;o)
790
· 1 year ago
One reason I don't have cable tv. Commercials!
Sorry but when Cable was introduced they sold us on No Commercials. Well that changed didn't it. I enjoy watching pretty much all my favs when they come out on dvd. They start putting commericals inbetween the breaks on dvd's and their going to start a war...
Scott
· 2 months ago
I'm all for Journeyman coming back. I think they got much better as they went along and the show had strong potential to continue.
All Comments
I remember 'Star Trek: TNG', 'DS9' and 'Voyager' used to screen late at night, rarely for more than a few months at a time and almost always a few seasons late here in Australia... yet I know plenty of Trekkies who splurged on the VHS releases (always in plentiful supply at Target) and then on the DVDs. So there's obviously an audience there.
Then again... it could be argued that sci-fi fans (and fanboys in general) are a far smaller demographic than they (we) think. In spite of what a weekend at ComicCon (or a few minutes online) might suggest, I'd hedge a bet that the number of sci-fi fans out there doesn't come anywhere near the number of people tuning into 'Grey's Anatomy' or '24'.
It's why studios often overlook 'the fans' when making movies like 'Transformers' or any superhero flick. We just refuse to believe it.
ratings will eventually adapt and use input from Tivo and cable subscriptions.
They will do it because it will be cheaper and more acurate...
Its just a matter of time before were all Borg.
It's logical from a money-men perspective.
Sci-Fi's have always been screwed by the networks. Go back to the history of Star Trek (the original), which was almost prevented from airing because the script had a woman as the second in command. The show also weaved parables highlighting the foolishness of war, racism, and the Cold War into the general plots.
Sci-Fi shows tend to sneak in subversive, non-mainstream ideas and that always makes media executives nervous. Critical thinking leads to questioning authority, and 'sedition'.
It's not a coincidence that US defense companies like Westinghouse and General Electric thought it prudent to purchase major US networks.
But back to the point - yes, Neilson's ratings is social engineering and the dumbing down of America.
But that doesn't explain why shows like Farscape were cancelled... sci-fi shows are just plain EXPENSIVE compared to idiots doing karaoke under a spotlight.
Another problem is that TV tends to fall into easy to understand story / plots. Think of the Wander-who-does-good-deeds. Touch by an Angle and Knight Rider where identical shows in this respect. You must have your heroes and villains identifiable by their archetypes so anybody with in the first 5 minutes of watching a show can figure out who everyone is and where they stand.
Then there is the Deus ex machina problem. Every show must be neatly tied up at the end of the 43 minutes; and too often technobable is the rescue.
Finally, it's damn expensive and not a sure sell.
Vic
Don't rely on only wikipedia for your sources.
Also, TiVo is now giving data directly to the studios, providing second-by-second breakdowns on viewer numbers and activity. This started in January of last year,
But pitching Sci-Fi is always the most difficult of the genres. Most executives are not fans of sci-fi; they find the concepts too "heady" and the productions too expensive.
genrehacks.blogspot.com
Sean Hood: I agree that Sci-Fi gets serviced better on cable, but when on-the-fence fans get exposed to the Sci Fi Channel, sometimes, it's not the best representation of Sci-Fi if they come across the Saturday night B movies they spam the air with, though on a rare occasion they tend to surprise me.
Maybe with the new chief at the helm
http://screenrant.com/archives/sci-fi-channel-gets-a-new-capt-1295.html
things may change! Thanks for writing.
genrehacks.blogspot.com
Its called www.HelpChangetv.com and while it focuses on the US Born Latino market underrepresentation in their current system (U.S. born Latinos have a median age of 18 and MANY are Sci Fi fanatics) it is also a way to get them to become more accountable for all of their ratings services.
Since Nielsen is a virtual monopoly, sites like HelpChangeTV.com and this blog are necessary for change. It won’t happen any other way.
Farscape was cancelled because it was too expensive and Sci-fi channel had to decide between Stargate SG1 and Farscape.
^
John Doe, could you just not watch ANY reality shows and of course all reruns of LEXX. Thanks so much!!
I actually did some work on that show (beg forgiveness) and I'll tell ya they filmed that entire show and got back to the states and had no idea what to do.
Some editor brought in some lame ass congo music,the other 12 editors said "ya sounds good" and they just threw that crap show together...
Next thing its BIGGEST thing on tv. Shows like Survivor and Idol are way cheaper than your average Stargate episode.
Its quantity NOT quality anymore. Randy Reefer knows what I'm talking bout.
As much as I agree with the view of this article, I believe the author is not well informed nor tuned in to how tv works.
Start looking at the non-broadcast networks and you'll start to see where tv is heading. USA, TNT and FX are prime examples.
It confounds me that some Sci-Fi shows can have entertaining character development, seem to be well written to account for story details, but thematically does not seem to catch on with the general populace. Look at Lost... compelling in the curiosity department, gritty survival on island story, but yet we have unexplained phenoms like wispy black smoke that kills people and invisible dinosaurs. (The moment they explain that black smoke thing, I'm outta there!)
If I were a Nielsen household, I'd probably screw up the ratings too.. I tend to tape the stuff I really like to watch later, and leave the drabble on the tube that I am curious about, while I write.
If they monitored TiVo, and I were a TiVo user, then things would be different. That doesn't even count the shows I go catch online, but then, you can't ff through the commercials on those outlets, so they should be counted.. right? Are they counted in ratings counts?
I have more questions as I read more comments, and thanks to everyone who's pitching in their thoughts and opinions.
Regards - Bruce
TV execs believe the modern viewing public want touchy-feely TV where people sit around and talk about how they feel and stuff that Joe and Jane "EVERYVIEWER" can relate to. So, what's easier to relate to? people talking about the "next hook up/last break up" or a big honking spaceship that doesn't care about you or your mama? It's all about what the viewer can RELATE to.
SciFi is excellent escape, but it will always be relegated to the big screen where it thrives with a nice budget and doesn't get cancelled half way through watching it.The theatre will exist to fill the so-called niche audiences. What are the biggest movie franchises out there? Star Wars and Star Trek. Other big movies? Horror films, Nightmare on Elm Street, Halloween, Friday the 13th. How many weekly horror shows are there? Other big films? The Ten Commandments. How many regular religious series are there on TV?
It's got to be a cheap and easy buck with the high return. TV is the way for reality. The Cinema will have to satisfy everyone else. Therefore, I propose TV will always SUCK unless you enjoy the NFL, College Football/Basketball, MLB and the occasional NBA game. Which I do. After all that, it's the Simpsons...
Hey! You left off NASCAR!
Hardly bunk.
I have to admit that I don't have cable, Tivo or even a netflix account. The only tv shows I wacth these days are MLB baseball, 24, Prison Break, SNL and recently the Sarah Connor show. I have soo many dvd's and dvd's of tv shows I havnt watched yet that I'm good for about 2 years.
Reality shows arnt even tv to me there some sort of toxic mutation.
Show some creativity! Stop pumping the networks with this crap, stop with the remakes of old movies or turning 60's TV shows into movies, and write something thoughtful that we, your loyal viewers, can enjoy for cryin-out-loud!
Firefly and Blade are two perfect examples of good series that weren't really given a chance. Now the choice is back to Big Brother or Saved By The Bell re-runs. At least BSG may finish out the final season.
And yes, we better look at figuring out how to fix it because Panda is talking about herself in the 3rd person...
Did you guys know that Universal just signed a 6 year deal with Hasbro to turn their board games into movies.
So we can expect to see movie versions of CandyLand, Battleship, Clue, Ouiji board and Monopoly. Maybe if were unlucky will get a movie version of Hungry Hungry Hippos... Battle Bots might be good. (What am I saying?)
After a few of these films I'll be begging for a Aliens vs Predator Requiem sequel.
Fix it, the studios don't see anything wrong with it.
Until the hordes of mindless neilsen scum stop watching the shows like American Bingo night and american idol were doomed to watch our dvd's and remember the good ole days.
Alot of people over the age of 60 don't have or even care about the Web.
Terminator sarah chronicles is doing awesome business and gets a lot of viewers.
On top of that this show delivers more in terms of action and thrills than all other sci-fi programs combined.
I'm 28, by the way, and well aware that downloading came long after sci-fi TV started getting the shaft.
My point was that sci-fi fans in general are more into buying and keeping, hence why department stores were always chock-full of 'Star Trek' videos, while TV would barely touch the shows. Besides, I interpreted the article more as a current issue, given how much more sci-fi/genre TV is being produced.
I mean, isn't it blatantly obvious why sci-fi got the shaft prior to this decade? The cost alone would be through the roof and not worth the investment if advertising dollars can go toward medical dramas.
As for 'reality' TV - I've got to admit, I love some of it. 'Survivor' and 'Amazing Race' are brilliant game shows, 'Big Brother' (here in Australia) is a fun social experiment (or was before it replaced interesting individuals with dopey twenty-something bimbos and surfer dudes) and shows like 'Idol' can be a bit of a laugh for anyone keeping their finger on the pulse of pop culture. The word 'reality' is taken way too literally, I think, since many of the shows are just a more textured, modern take on outdated game shows, lifestyle programs and things like 'American Bandstand'. But - yes - it's become silly and 95% of the crap needs to go.
^
Just a reminder gang the season finale of Terminator, the Sarah Connor Cronicles is on tonight!!!!!
Advertisers want viewers that can be swayed by a 30-second emotional appeal. Most Sci Fi fans are too "logical".
And I don't buy any excuse that comes from Journeyman, I'm sorry but the fans of that show have no legitimate argument in crying foul about the treatment of that show. That show was given the best treatment NBC it could give. I mean come on, it was given the post-Heroes timeslot which was one of top rated show on NBC at that time, it was also given a decent amount of time to find an audience and allowed to air all its episodes. I personally did not like the show and the critics were at best lukewarm about it. I feel that scifi fans are like Star Trek fans, they accept and enjoy crap just because they are glad that scifi and it is being made
Like I said before the problem is not the networks but the shows themselves. Yes sometimes the networks do screw up the shows (like the Jericho example you mentioned, a show which started with strong ratings but then lost the momentum after a ridiculously long hiatus) but more often then not it is the shows themselves that are to blame. A lot of these shows are given ample opportunity: NBC gave Journeyman the post-Heroes timeslot and ABC gave Invasion the post-Lost timeslot which are the best timeslots any scifi show could ever hope for, but still those shows failed, that does not signify lack of support from the network but the lack of appeal of the shows themselves. I thought Bionic Woman was absolutely atrocious and even though I really wanted to like Terminator but gave up on it after the 4th episode; the story is just so bland I mean, there is no sense of mystery, there is no sense of intrigue and due to budget constraints the action is very mediocre. Honestly the only scifi shows that I really give a damn about are LOST and Heroes. Even bad episodes of Lost and Heroes are better then anything on tv. I mean the worst episode of Lost ("Jack's tattoo's episode) is miles better then the best episode of Bionic Woman. JJ Abrams is developing a new show for next season which looks like it could be the next big Sci fi hit
It does often seem to be the case that support for sci-fi TV comes from people who'd accept almost anything. But, if that's the case, it's highly unlikely those same people would have the insight to see the forest for the trees.
It's human nature to think of ourselves as more worthy and important than we may actually be.
Yes, and those same random families are responsible for keeping crap on the air like "Survivor" and "Big Brother" year after year, as I mentioned above. Look at many of the lowbrow sitcoms that flourish, heck, don't many people here consider most of what's on TV (with the exception of what's been noted in this thread) to be utter garbage?
That's what our "random" Neilson families help keep on the air.
The average person has lousy taste and will accept almost anything when it comes to film and TV, so I think a big part of the problem is that those who actually recognize quality are in the minority. Slice that down further by including only those in that group that enjoy sci-fi and then yeah, I can see how the numbers won't support a series.
Think I'm being a jerk? Many of the replies I receive when I give a lousy movie or TV show the review it deserves rake me over the coals.
Need more evidence?
I'm telling you, we're headed for the world shown in Mike Judge's film "Idiocracy."
Fortunately those are the exception rather than the rule here at Screen Rant. :-)
Vic
Still... as much as it frustrates me to see 'dumb humour' films like those from the Scary Movie team do well... it's a bit rich to suggest the audience is "wrong" for liking this stuff or that their taste is lacking. There is no "right" or "wrong" when it comes to entertainment - just differences of opinion.
As an awesome lecturer once taught me: never underestimate the lowest common denominator.
I want to see good, quality shows on the air - not this crap the Nielsen people are watching.
Previously posted: "And I don't buy any excuse that comes from Journeyman, I'm sorry but the fans of that show have no legitimate argument in crying foul about the treatment of that show. That show was given the best treatment NBC it could give. I mean come on, it was given the post-Heroes timeslot which was one of top rated show on NBC at that time, it was also given a decent amount of time to find an audience and allowed to air all its episodes. I personally did not like the show and the critics were at best lukewarm about it. I feel that scifi fans are like Star Trek fans, they accept and enjoy crap just because they are glad that scifi and it is being made"
Sorry man, I absolutely disagree with you on this. The post-Heroes timeslot was not ideal for this show as the two appealed to two totally different audiences! Whereas Heroes is an over-the-top, humans with super-powers show, Journeyman is a family drama with hints of sci-fi; the sci-fi, however, is not the main focus of the show. There was also lackluster promotion for this show on NBC's part...
On THAT we agree, lol. :-)
Vic
And now days people dont let themselfs become slaves of the timeslots anymore- you don't have to make sure you are at your home 8 every saturday for the whole year just to watch Lost(or whatever) -people use tivo , dvd recorders and downloads- not to talk of buying the whole season on dvd.
Could they make tv series just for dvd sale? to risky? why not sign up people on line- would you like more star trek enterpise? sign on - when soandso many million people sign on we start bringing you the Bakula!
-If we fan boys and sci-fi fans are so many and willing to pay for good sci-fi could we not make this happen?
I participated in one of the Australian ratings systems about 7 years ago. 300 households was the sample size, and they actually told me my demographic, single males, was woefully under-represented.
That said, a lot of people I know like American Idol and shows like Law & Order, even the sci fi fans, so it doesn't surprise me they are high in the ratings.
Ads are useless time filling fodder that gets in the way of the show and they never persuade me, EVER.
The scary part though, is that they do work or they wouldn't exist!! dAh!!!
The very science of television money-making means that shows aimed at an easily manipulated audience will always win out over those that appeal to the more discerning viewer. It's simple logic, when you think about it... since, without advertising that works, there simply is no free television.
;o)
Commercials!
Sorry but when Cable was introduced they sold us on No Commercials. Well that changed didn't it.
I enjoy watching pretty much all my favs when they come out on dvd.
They start putting commericals inbetween the breaks on dvd's and their going to start a war...